Jimmy Joy forum

Protein level is too high for general use

Jimmy Joy was centered before in creating a perfect product. One which was backed up by science, trying to achieve the perfect combination of ingredients to facilitate an easy and healthy lifestyle.

Yet then it decided to hear the popular opinion. Which I can’t blame them, after all Jimmy Joy is a company that needs to make money, and it is hard not to give its clients something they ask for, even if you know it is less healthy.

The problem is that popular opinion, and “pop-science” is just not right. There seems to be an overall craze about high-protein foods. It seems to be the only ingredient that people look for.

Love protein diets are said to prolong lifespan. And I’m not saying that Jimmy Joy should actually go that low in protein content. But what we have now is just overkill.

WHO recommends 0.83 grams per kg of bodyweight.
A standard 70kg male consuming 2000 kcal a day of Plenny Shake (that being the very low end) would be getting almost twice the recommended daily intake (100 grams of protein instead of 58).

It is high, and all sources seems to point to that being just unhealthy.

So, I want to ask, is there any actual reason of Jimmy Joys products having such a high level on protein? What is behind the decision to make it so high, is there any actual science behind it?

I don’t see no problem in making some products with an excessive amount of protein, if that is what some people ask for. But I get the feeling that Jimmy Joy might actually be having a negative impact on the lives of less worried people that just buy Jimmy Joy thinking it is a healthy product and don’t worry much about the macros.

Another possible reason I can imagine behind it is hunger relief. I guess that statistically it might be healthier to put more protein if it makes people less hungry and then they consume less calories and don’t gain/lose weight.
In that case, sure, it statistically works. Like, there are many overweight people. But it would still be hurting (I understand I’m being a bit overly dramatic) the people that have no problem with their weight/hunger.

With all of that said, I feel like I’m going to have to cancel my subscription because I just can’t keep seeing Jimmy Joy’s products as healthy. Healthier than many of people diets? Sure. But not healthy.
Still I think that you guys make a wonderful product, one that has made my life much easier many times, so congratulations.

And please, really, do try to change my mind about any mentioned points. I’m after all not as educated in nutrition as I would like to be, so any extra knowledge is welcome.

Thank you.

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There is no scientific consensus on the ideal amount of protein. The WHO and EFSA say the human body needs an average of 0,83g/kg bodyweight, but a lot of research points towards 1,8g/kg. -especially if you are physically active. Since most of our customers use our products once, maybe twice a day we increased the protein so that you get enough. Especially since it is an essential macro nutrient that many people don’t consume enough!

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Hi Tim, could you point me towards that research? I would love to read more about the subject.
And if new research points towards 1.8g/kg but FAO/WHO/UNU says 0.83g/kg, a sensible value would be something in-between.

A normal 70kg man needs around 2400 kcal per day. That would put him on 120 grams of protein, or 1.71 g/kg.

And while someone active might need to increase their protein intake, they will also need to increase their calorie intake, so if the man instead need 3000 kcal, he is already heading for 150 grams of protein (2.14g/kg).

And here we are only talking about the standard version, not the active version. If we talk about active, that is 2.9g/kg for a 70kg man consuming 3000 kcal. 3.5 times the recommended amount.

What does the WHO have to say about that?

image

And sure, I don’t care about an active version having a ton of protein if that is what people want, but why have the standard version so high in protein?

Especially since it is an essential macro nutrient that many people don’t consume enough!

I find that a bit hard to believe hahaha. Even if you eat only pasta, you will be getting enough protein if you hit the recommended amount of calories. And I bet that people that are deciding to eat something else than Plenny Shake are doing so for a healthier meal or tastier (and what is pretty tasty? ) meal. Not just plain pasta.
I doubt there is any healthy person hitting their recommended amount of calories that is having any trouble getting to their recommended amount of protein.

Sure, perhaps if you eat only Cassava, maybe.

Quote of wikipedia:
Kwashiorkor cases occur in areas of famine or poor food supply. Cases in the developed world are rare.

Edit: Thanks for the answer btw

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Hi! I am María, a medical student! I take JimmyJoy for breakfast and often lunch. I saw this post and I got interested in the matter. I am not an expert in nutrition, but I have been taught the basics and I have access to medical resources that normally need payment.
UpToDate is a paid service that recopiles information about EVERYTHING health-related, and it updates frequently. A lot of teachers recommend us this webpage whenever we face a problem we don’t know about, since it summarizes all relevant and novel info. Being a student, I can access for free. UpToDate says the following about protein intake in healthy individuals:

  1. Protein intake should make 10-35% of caloric intake, as recommended by the United States Dietary Guidelines (1)
  2. The recommend consumption of between 1.6 and 2.2 g per kg of bodyweight per day of dietary protein for those participating in strength training programs . Contrary to widely held assumptions, this level of protein intake does not harm the healthy kidney. They cite studies (2), (3) and (4). Access the link at the end of this post for references.
    Plenny Shake (not active) actually has a protein intake of 20%, which is in the recommended range. As for active people, if they want to build up muscle, it is recommended to take between 1.6 and 2.2 per kg, which is safe. This data is up to date as of June 2020 (last review), and it was last modified on December 2019. This is just evidence supporting that, in fact, there is no risk in an increased protein intake. We can still question if >2.2 is risky or not, and what is the best protein ratio per kg.

PubMed recopiles studies from all around the world as long as they have been published in a magazine. In PubMed, I found the following:

  1. USA investigators refuting the American RDA for protein intake, which is 0’83g per kg. In short, they found that people with an increased protein intake were less likely to suffer from bone fractures in their old age. So they conclude that it should be recommended to increase this minimum limit. To what value you may ask… More research to find out. Link (5).
  2. USA investigators again!! This time, it is muscle mass and old age. Again, 0’83 is less than sufficient. Link (6).
  3. USA. A protein intake of 20-35% of the total caloric intake is safe for renal health.
  4. Australia. 1’0-1’3 g/kg/day in old people can reduce muscle mass loss. 0’83, again, insufficient for a determined age group.
  5. USA. An study shows that the majority of American surpass the RDA for protein.

Additionally, I found two reviews that discuss what is the optimal protein intake. They argue that the current 0’83 is based on certain parameters that don’t actually reflect the reality of protein metabolism in the human body. It was a good aproach when it was decided (in 2004 I think?) but now we know more about metabolism and there are better parameters to determine other better reference value. Links (7) and (8).

A review by Spanish investigators ( 9) concludes the following:
“High-protein diets may be appropriate for some individuals, but not for others; hence, specific individual needs, as well as potential negative consequences, must be considered cautiously before such a diet is adopted. The protein content of a diet may be measured using several methods; however, because of the great individual variability in caloric requirements, measuring intake based on the proportion of proteins in total energy intake seems to be the most realistic method. A moderate intake of 1.5 g/(kg ⋅ d) may be easily included in the acceptable protein intake range (AMDR 10–35%) for most individuals. However, currently, no objective standard for protein consumption >0.8 g/(kg ⋅ d) exists. It is important to distinguish between the amount of protein that is required to optimize bone and muscle health and the amount necessary to prevent a deficiency. It is also important to note that high-protein diets are harmful to CKD patients; however, for healthy kidney patients, in view of the findings of several studies, the consumption of a high-protein diet appears to be more advantageous than deleterious. In addition, dietary protein seems to play an important role in other metabolic processes, such as satiety, cellular signaling, and thermogenic and glycemic regulation in the body. However, this effect becomes important only when consumption is above the RDI; thus, it seems likely that protein intake above the RDI could be advantageous in many situations. Long-term clinical intervention trials in which dietary protein is increased in healthy individuals should be carried out to determine the efficacy and potential negative consequences of a high-protein diet.”
Please notice that 1’5 is considered a moderate intake and fitting for the majority.

Conclusion: If you were to ask me if Plenny Shake is healthy, I would say it is for the majority of individuals. It contains 20% of protein intake, which is a middle value in the 10-35% range, and it is considered safe for health in most of the recent articles and guidelines. Of course, Plenny Shake is made for “normal” people, so anyone with lower or higher calory intakes than those considered normal for your age and physical activity will be affected somehow.

I would like to point out a little misconception about proteins. We have talking about quantity as if it was the only parameter that matters. If someone reads the articles (7) and (8), you will notice that the quality is far more important, just less discussed. The difference between eating a good quantity of proteins in a plate of pasta and in a Plenny Shake is that you are not getting all high-quality proteins with pasta. The issue with proteins in health is not only a matter of too little or too much (which can also get you sick) but what proteins?. You can eat a lot but that won’t mean you are getting enough. Appart from needing certain proteins to multiply or rechange cells, the proteins that we eat affect our gut and microbiote, which in turn send signals to our brain. Same can be said about other macronutrients. Brain-intestine axis is a novelty even for scientists, but it has been proposed to have a role in pathology.

PD: I am sorry this is long and probably not that interesting. Please have in mind English is not my first language. And if you know more, please share and comment!! Does someone knows where 1’8 has been recommended? Or other reference values? Or papers.

References: https://pastebin.com/NaCC9syD

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Thanks Maria for this awesome reply! :slight_smile: We could not have said it better.

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Hello to all!

Of course its interesting and relevant that you bring up this comments of yours Maria, thanks!!

I would also like to mention, that the main reason for which one portion contains 20g of protein is so that the product complies with the meal replacement standards established by EFSA. For this, the protein content can’t be less than 25% of the total energy intake. We do try to be as low as possible in this regards, reason to which one portion of Plenny Shake provide you 20g of protein, which corresponds to 26% of the energy intake.

For your reference: The standard plenny shake is designed under the basis of an average 80kg male consuming 1.25g of protein / kg

I hope we have informed you sufficiently.
Kindest regards,

Joanna

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If anything, protein level is a bit on the low side. I wonder where all these people with the “protein is evil” thinking come from. Of all the things wrong with food today, toxic metals, halides, GMO, pesticides and artificial sweeteners, and you people focus on protein. Something that is essential for every function in the body. All cells, hair, skin, nails, bones -just to name some contextual examples- are in a constant cycle of regeneration and the body requires protein -more specific amino acids- in sufficient quantities to do this. I am by no means an expert, but even I, in my oversimplified understanding, know this.

If excess protein is consumed, it is metabolized into energy at the same rate a carbohydrate is. Folk should condemn meat and dairy instead of vegetable proteins. Those are the source of many illnesses and maladies many suffer from today.

Of course, GMO plants are as bad or worse than meat. Yet they are almost ubiquitous, to the point I highly doubt J_o_ylent’s claim that they are GMO free. But that is another topic entirely.

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Oh, and actually, low protein diets do not prolong lifespan. That is an incorrect conclusion. Correlation does not imply causation. For instance, did you know that eating less calories is also shown to prolong lifespan. In fact more so than anything else. Abstaining from food -also known as fasting- for medium to long periods also has a multitude of health benefits, ranging from hormonal balance, to autophagy.

This may puzzle scientists yet, to me, the connection is evident. All food today is poison, to the point that abstaining from it, is incredibly beneficial.

The plenny shake doesn’t have high protein and the Active version could have a few grams more of protein.

unfortunately we can’t really tailor to personal needs when it comes to our products, we take an average of what we learn from science, customer/community feedback and our personal ideas as a company. Of course there’s many ways to customize the shakes more to your personal preference, but I suppose it takes away a bit of the whole idea of having a sort of one-stop meal…

Thank you!! I am embarrased it did not come to my mind to search for an European organization when looking for information about this. I feel like I could answer much more confidently now when facing this question in the future! :smile:

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That’s awesome, glad to hear you feel that way! :smiley:

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