Sunflower oil replacement?

Hey guys. I am a big fan of JimmyJoy and a subscriber for other 2 years. I am such a lazy cook and super glad that something like this exists, that is easy and healthy.

That said I informed myself a little bit about vegetable oils and especially after watching this video here:

I am a bit concerned about the sunflower oil in my Plenny Shake. Is it possible to get that with maybe Coconut oil instead? I get, that JiimyJoy is vegan, so probably no butter or anything^^

Talking about food can trigger people easily, so I hope I don’t hurt anyone feelings by posting this here. I just want to understand what’s correct and what not.

The coconut oil has a sightly taste of coconut. I’m from Spain, where the olive oil is a SUPER FOOD.
I suggest maybe an olive oil (virgen extra) the handicap is that has a olive flavor… Or you can try AVOCADO OIL, soft and nutritive.
Here in Spain we prefer the olive oil, it has so many benefits to the body…

The coconut oil has a sightly taste of coconut

I would not mind. Actually a coconut flavour would be awesome!

Looking at this graph, I would like to have some oil, that has less unsaturated fat (like butter or coconut oil). Olive oil is probably much better also! Thanks for replying @apontex . Greetings from germany to spain <3

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Why on earth would you want more saturated fat?

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OK. I took the time to view most of the video. I couldnt proceed past the 20 minute mark where they speculate that unsaturated fat is the reason for tiredness, as it is the most classical trick of the trade if you’re into alternative medicine, and its just plain getting old.

As for the general notion, it has the traits of a classical conspiracy theory trying to win you over with associations, anecdotes and assumptions, while ignoring the bulk of evidence out there, because hey, we all know that the researchers are bought by the industry, while the youtubers are the true scholars.

This has the stench of misinformation all over it.

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Hello @Cheeserider , you mentioned a bulk of evidence against the studies mentioned in the video? Can you maybe point me in a direction?

Looks like you missed the cited studies in the video and also the argument that “Most Studies on Vegetable Oils aren’t long enough” (-> /watch?v=rQmqVVmMB3k&t=1475s)

Actually you missed to go into any of the arguments by being sarcastic. It’s not an argument to talk someone down for being a Youtuber.

So much for my

Talking about food can trigger people easily, so I hope I don’t hurt anyone feelings by posting this here. I just want to understand what’s correct and what not.

Would love to have an information based conversation instead of a feelings based…

First hit on PubMed is a Cochrane review: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32827219/

Its not a feeling. Its the fact that the combined body of professional institutions advice against to substitute saturated fat for polyunsaturated ones. So when a youtuber, or whomever, takes a stand against the body of professionals its one of two things:
1: A scientist who made groundbreaking studies, negating all that is known to be true. This is extemely rare.
2: A conspiracy theoretic without any sort of scientific background making wrong conclusions because they havent got the proper education in interpreting data correctly.

Your source is by all indication the latter. If you want to be a health influencer on YouTube, or anywhere else for that matter, you should at least go trough the trouble of getting a degree. Take it from me, its not that hard. An incredibly small amount of online influencers have a scientific background, and as such cannot be, and should not be taken seriously.

Hey, I just check out your link and found the review which has been cited many times it seems. Still I can find for example this article (not YouTube but unfortunately in german ;)): Ernährung: Gesättigte Fette nicht verteufeln

In fast allen Analysen der Studie fand sich kein Effekt auf das kardiovaskuläre Risiko, nur eine einzige Auswertung zeigte eine schwache Assoziation zwischen gesättigten Fettsäuren und kardiovaskulären Ereignissen. Umso überraschender, dass die Cochrane Collaboration dennoch eine Reduktion der gesättigten Fette fordert.

This seems to say that the findings in the cochrane review are rather weak and it’s surprising that they still recommend lowering the intake of saturated fat.

Your rant about people without a degree that can not and should not be taken seriously sounds like your last and only straw you grab on, as it makes no sense that you need to have a degree to read papers or to discuss them. Also there are so many kinds of degrees. Do I need to have a degree in everything to talk about all the topics? Can doctors even talk about statistics if they don’t have a math degree? Is everything automatically wrong, if someone says something who has no degree? You, my friend, have a twisted mind, if you actually think this is true.

It, by the way, also doesn’t make you or me or anyone right all the time, if we have a degree. Papers contradict each other all the time and what seems true today will be false in just the next couple of years. Especially in dietary studies, as it’s really hard to isolate the variables! This is not rare at all.

Unfortunately you seem to be one of the people who are not trying to look for the truth, but you already found your “truth” and that’s it. Good for you.

I just looked up your “First hit”. Actually the real first several hits show the opposite of what you found… really bad faith debater.

Not going to debate you anymore, as you clearly show lack of interest in finding the truth or having a clean debate.

Adhering to guidelines from experts like the AHA, who are attempted discredited in the video, should be a fairly secure bet. Keep it up JJ :muscle::man_student:

Hey @Zenpi! thanks for the long-term support :smiley:

The video you shared is intriguing. It’s difficult to pin all of the blame on one food group. Typically, the cause of a disease or a health condition is due to a combination of factors known as an individual’s habits or lifestyle. As stated in the video, many of the results showed a correlation, but this does not imply causation. Many factors, such as physical activity, stress, overall diet, and so on, can influence the development of a disease. However, it is unquestionably necessary to pause and reevaluate our diet and health habits in order to ensure that we are consuming high-quality and complete foods.

Please know that we adhere to the most recent updates from the NVWA (Dutch Food and Consumer Product Safety Authority) and the EFSA’s scientific opinion in order to create the safest and healthiest meals possible.

Why are saturated oils not preferred? The impact of saturated fats on health has been extensively researched, with studies indicating that consuming excessive amounts of these fats may raise cholesterol levels and, in the long run, increase the risk of heart disease by promoting blood clotting. As a result, it is critical to limit the amount of fat consumed per day and to choose unsaturated fats. Trans fats are another type of fat that has been linked to health risks. Trans fats are produced through a chemical process known as hydrogenation. Hydrogenation is the addition of hydrogen to liquid healthy oils. This improves their stability and makes them stronger. It also keeps them from turning rancid, which is why trans fats are commonly used to extend the expiration dates of processed foods. According to research, eating foods high in trans fats can raise the levels of harmful cholesterol in our blood as well as cause inflammation, which has been linked to an increased risk of heart disease.

Why, on the other hand, do we want to continue using unsaturated fats? They are preferred over saturated fats because they are thought to lower bad cholesterol. The different types of polyunsaturated fats are Omega 3, 6, and 9, and they are essential fats, which means that they are required for various body functions but that our bodies are unable to produce them, so they must be obtained through food. The sunflower oil we use is high-oleic. This means that it contains more polyunsaturated than monounsaturated fatty acids. High-oleic sunflower oil has a neutral taste and is stable against oxidation due to its lower linoleic acid content.

Hey @Laura.A ,
thank you so much for your detailed answer. This is more than I expected and I am positively surprised.

What you wrote about LDL cholesterol is what we usually read, when we do some research. Also this is what we have been told for so many years, right? Like “Breakfast is the most important meal of the day”. But now we know (probably) that intermittent fasting is much healthier. Also that we still promote low fat and high carbs diets seem to be extremely dangerous.

Anyway, back to the LDL. When you look more closely, it does not seem to be that LDL is causing the clotting, but too much excess triglycerides in the blood. Actually the “What I’ve Learned” guy has another video exactly about that:

Combining this with the fact that we eat WAY too much sugar which leads to obesity and that we are not going into ketosis anymore. Leads me to believe that cholesterol is not directly responsible for the sicknesses we have. It just seem to happen that obese people have a lot of excess triglycerides, because they cannot store more fat in their cells, and so the body also produces more LDL to carry everything around. So here we also have a correlation vs causation problem it seems.

I am not a doctor. I watched these videos with my partner and she happens to be a doctor. And she confirms to me that my thoughts are not wrong and there might be a lot to learn in this still (also for doctors).

Also I just bought this book. (The author is also a doctor :)):

This is about:

  • Facts doctors are taught to think about nutrition and other preventative health measures and how they should be thinking
  • Story of how the food pyramid and MyPlate came into existence and why they should change
  • Facts about fat intake and heart health
  • Truth about the effects of whole wheat on the human body
  • Role of dairy in your diet
  • Truth about salt - friend or foe?
  • Dangers and benefits of hormone therapy
  • New information about inflammation and how it should be viewed by doctors

I don’t know man. To me it does not look like we already figured out what’s best, when it comes to food. And therefore I just want to ask, what your plans are about this topic. So your answer is, you will not have any coconut flavour drink?

Thank you again for the kind response. I hope I am not stepping on anyones toes with this post (again) ^^

The large problem with books and YouTube as source of scientific information is that they circumvent a central aspect of science, the peer review. While scientific papers are often cited in said works there is no review of the interpretation of the papers and following conclusions which often turn out fallacies.

Doctors also previously co-authored books on anti-inflammatory diets, which is completely nonsensical and thoroughly debunked - there are quacks in all lines of work! :smiley:

You’re right that some previous “truths” also turned out fallacies, but that doesnt make all “truths” equal or current “truths” false by association.

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I see what you’re saying.
Indeed, we cannot blame LDL alone for cardiovascular risk, but it is a predictor of potential health complications. It is the collection of factors that contribute to the formation of a condition. As you mentioned, a high-sugar diet is unhealthy, and a lack of vitamins and minerals (which are typically lacking in highly processed foods) sets off a chain reaction that leads to disease. Most evaluations and experiments do not take into account all of the variables (which must be extremely difficult, of course), but this leaves loose ends that may lead to an association fallacy. More research, with larger populations, is required.
The video raises many questions, and this is how research trends for the coming years are identified. It may appear that we have already determined what is best, but much more research is required to prove that, after repetitions and clinical evaluation, the hypothesis is correct. The book you mentioned looks interesting, and I’d like to read it out of curiosity (I do understand that many things in science are taken as dogmas so whatever is being questioned could bring new insights).
As I previously stated, we strive to provide the healthiest meal possible, and we will stay up to date on the most recent nutritional findings from health authorities. At the moment, we have no plans to replace unsaturated fats with saturated fats. However, you mentioned a coconut-flavored drink, and we do have a coconut flavor Plenny Shake. If you want to add saturated fats to your shake, you could combine it with a teaspoon of melted coconut oil, which has 39 calories and 3.9g of saturated fats.

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